Melinda
Melinda has been fighting her deportation since 2014, when she was released from detention and placed on ICE supervision. She lives in New York City with her daughter.
Note: interview has been lightly edited for readability.
Interviewer 0:04
Okay. So I'm officially starting the interview. Can you let us know your name, today's date, and your location currently?
Melinda 0:17
My name is Melinda. Today's date is November 10th, 2020. Um, my location, I am at home.
Interviewer 0:29
Where are you located?
Melinda 0:31
I’m, I’m in the Bronx. Sorry…
Interviewer 2:16
All right, so I'm gonna just start with talking about moving to the U.S.
What are some of your first memories of getting here, and what were your first impressions were of coming to the United States?
Melinda 2:37
Wow, I was–– I was really young. I came here um, at seven. I remember seeing snow for my very first time. And it was cold, it’s like really cold. I was excited to see the snow. I didn't know what it was. So you know, it was just like, oh my God, you know, what is this? But that and also just seeing a different, like a different scenery around me. It wasn't anything like where I came from.
Interviewer 3:22
Where were you coming from?
Melinda 3:24
I–– I'm from Antigua and Barbuda. So um, coming from there and my mom bringing me here was a big, big, big, a big change.
Interviewer 3:39
Yes. Do you remember anything else? The snow, the weather. . .
Melinda 3:48
The traffic, the noise. As young as I was, I remember the noise. Oh! I remembered coming from the airport, and we were on the highway, and I saw that globe. Think it was in Queens. And I saw that globe and I never knew what that globe were until I got older. You know? And I went back over there. And I was just like, wait I remember seeing this globe when I was younger, first time I came to America. Yeah, that globe and yeah, that’s all I could remember at that time.
Interviewer 4:37
Do you remember some of the reasons why your mom decided to bring you guys to the U.S.?
Melinda 4:50
My mom never really, really spoke of a reason why she decided to bring us here. My mother was always coming to the United States frequently. She would go to Puerto Rico frequently. So it was things that she normally does. But um, I didn't, I didn't know that we was gonna end up staying here. So you know, I just thought it was one of our trips. Well one of her trips, and she decided to take me with her for the very first time. And yeah, we end up just staying. So it was never a reason; she didn't give a reason. I don't think she had a reason. There was no reason. She just wanted to come, and we stayed.
Interviewer 5:31
Yeah, do you remember asking her, like are we ever going to go back?
Melinda 5:37
[pauses] uh . . . I don't remember asking if we ever gonna go back, I think because I was so small that, you know, whatever decision my mom wanted to make, I was–– you know, I was with it. For the simple fact that my mom was a single mother. And I was the only child she had with her at the time. But I had two older siblings. And they're–– My older brother, he ran away from home. And my older sister; her father's grandparents took her and started raising her, cuz my mom was young when she had her kids. So basically, only thing I can think of is maybe she wanted a change for herself. And she decided to bring us both up here.
Interviewer 6:38
Do you remember your sense of home changing over time at all? I guess you were really young. But at some point was it like, the United States felt more like home? Or did you think about Antigua much?
Melinda 7:01
I think, um, I think after honestly–– after probably maybe six months of me being in the United States, that thought was gone. You know, it, I think it was something that just automatically diminished. Because um, the only, the only, the only thing I missed was my older sister. So I would always, you know, be hunting my mom and be like, Ma, you got to–– I want my sister. You know? Because she comes and stays with me when we have a break from school. So that was the only time I would see her and she'll stay for, you know, a month or whatever. And me and my older sister was really close. That’s my only sibling like I had back home. So yeah, I really didn't, no–– I didn't, I didn’t miss it.
Interviewer 7:59
So your sister was kind of like the one piece of something not in the United States that you thought about or—
Melinda 8:07
Right. And I believe the reason why I really didn't miss it like that is, like I said, I left there when I was seven years old. So I didn't, I didn't really experience anything. You know, I didn't really experience what the island’s really like for me to say, you know, that's my island. I–– you know what I mean? Like, I came here and experienced everything.
“No private jail is supposed to call ICE to be able to do something like that. No jail period.”
Interviewer 8:27
Right. So, I'm going to shift to talk about the criminal, the criminal system and immigration system a little bit and punishment. Do you remember when you first thought about or understood the possibility that you could be deported from the U.S.?
Melinda 9:05
Yes.
Interviewer 9:08
What do you remember about that time?
Melinda 9:14
So um, this was, [pause] I’m gonna say it would have been 2010. Nope. No, let me not say that. It was 2008 actually. I was in North Carolina, at the um, at the jail in North Carolina before I got sentenced for my charges. And the first sergeant there, she made it her business to actually call ICE to put a ICE detainer on me. So at that time, I already knew that, you know, ICE was going to come and get me once my, um–– once I'm, I’m finished with my time.
[pauses]
At that time I was–– I had–– the feds had came and took me from North Carolina and brought me to New York. Because they wanted me in another case or something. When they brought me to New York, they took the hold off of me. I asked them: Did I have to have the hold on me? And I was told that I–– up here in New York, they don't need to keep a hold on me. But–– and that's how I understood about the whole little private jails and all that stuff, because nobody didn't tell me this. Just, I had put it together, the way how everything was going. And I saw what that lady did. And I'm just like, something's not right. You know what I mean? So when, when the Feds–– the marshals brought me back to North Carolina, the first sergeant, that same lady, she was working that same day, because the officer is so crazy. The officer that was there at the desk. When they turned me over to him, when he went and put my ID number in the, in the thing, it saw–– it shows in their computer that I'm supposed to have a detainer hold on me.
But he's asking the marshals why I don't have the hold on me. So the lady looked at him and told him: She doesn't need a hold on her. Right? So I'm sitting on the–– I'm sitting there on the, on the, on the bench and in my head I'm like: please, if they can only override it, you know, and let that–– and let it kind of change that, then that'll be good. She came out and she got so upset, and she was just like: is this the detainee that you brought back? And the marshals was like: Yes. So she was like: Well, she is supposed to have a ICE hold on her, and it wasn't supposed to be lifted off. They told her: Well, she didn't need to have this ICE hold on her in our custody. So she was like: Well, I'm calling them back. And little–– I swear, she picked up the phone and called them back, and put that ICE detainer back on me. And yeah, that's how I know. No private jail is supposed to call ICE to be able to do something like that. No jail period. That means you have contracts with these jails. So they could just phone, and just call you at any time.
Interviewer 12:38
Do you remember before you went up to New York, do you remember–– like, did she tell you I'm calling ICE? Or did you get a form? How did you know that–– that holds had been placed?
Melinda 12:52
Because I sat there at the desk and listened when she told her officer to call them. And before they took me to the back before they finish processing me, she made sure that call was made and made sure that they–– made sure it was back in the system. Yes, I never forget that first thought; and it's a Black lady too [laughs]. Ooh, you don't understand. I was so upset. I like–– I plotted like, literally like I was going to go back down to North Carolina and see if I see her and just beat the brakes off of her just for that. I was like, You know what? It's okay.
Interviewer 13:38
Did you–– before you got to that jail did you—or maybe when you got arrested–– did you think: oh, I'm actually like not a citizen. Is this going to be an issue?…Or was it like, once you got there, you picked up the phone, you were like, oh wow?
Melinda 13:56
No. I knew that they was going to–– I already knew that they knew this already because of when I first got–– when I got locked up–– the detectives–– my stuff in my wallet–– I had my work permit in there so he knew that I was not–– I was not a U.S. citizen. So from there that, that's what the issue was. If I did not have that–– I didn't have that in my wallet and they’d have put my name down, there was no way that they would have found that out. I would have bid my time and got out. But, everything happens for a reason.
Interviewer 14:45
Wow. Do you remember how your friends or loved ones reacted to this possibility that you were facing deportation?
Melinda 15:03
[Laughs] It's not a funny question. I laugh. I laugh because it's a real, how can I say it, it's a real touchy subject, but not any more for me. I can, I can elaborate a little bit on it. But [pauses] for me, personally, I just feel like they have not done enough. I needed them to do more when–– in the beginning, when I got the hold put on me at first. And like a family is supposed to do–– everybody is supposed to step together, get together, and, you know, figure out something. That did not happen. So . . . it's a fight that I've been fighting. I'm not gonna say by myself.
But I was led to believe that I'm fighting the fight by myself. My daughter is the only–– she's the one who, when I was at Irwin [County Detention Center], you know, someone came up to me and gave me Families for Freedom number. And she's the only one that I could have given the number to, and for her to go to Families for Freedom, and explain, you know, what's been going on with me. And for Families to step in, and, you know, advocate and support my daughter and help her figure out what needs to be done to help me. You know.
Interviewer 16:47
How old?
Melinda 16:51
When that happened, she was already um, 20. But yeah, when I was in prison, you know she's–– my letters–– her letters, her cards–– I got my older sister's but–– I don't, I don't hold anything against anyone. You know. Sometimes I don't like talking about it because it's like–– yeah. I don't hold anything against anyone. I just feel like they could have um, they could have did better. Everyone could have did better except for my daughter.
Cause my daughter is one who took care of me. Even if they the ones who–– even if she, she passing in the message through for them is like: oh, tell your mom I said this, tell your mom–– I'm in North Carolina. No one––I never had not one visit for the eight years I've been locked up. You believe that? My daughter was not old enough to come to the prison to come and see me. So what she did was–– I–– my release date was 07/07/13. She was um, 18, and–– no she was 20. And my cousin–– She found out that I have a–– I had––we have a cousin that lives in North Carolina that is not too far away from the um, the jail. And my cousin was sick. She had just finished doing surgery. But my daughter was, she was adamant. My daughter told me; she wrote me. She said mom, I'm going to buy a ticket, and I'm going to come and visit you before they transfer you to the ICE detention center. Because she wasn't gonna be able to come and see me there. And sure enough, she did. And out of my whole family, she was the only one. Six months before they, before they came and got me. I saw her. For eight years, I haven’t seen my daughter. That was everything to me. Everything. You know, and that's my rider.
“I was always thinking about my daughter, my nephew, and my mom... Was always worrying if they ate, you know, what did they eat? Are they like, is my daughter, you know, going to school? ...and I worry myself into almost a stroke in prison.”
Interviewer 18:59
When you were in prison, when you're serving your state sentence, did you–– it sounds hard, like you didn't even have visits, and you weren't able to see your daughter. What were you thinking about? You know, what did you visualize when you were there the most? Like, was any of the immigration stuff on your mind? You're thinking about your daughter?
Melinda 19:31
I would think about my daughter 24/7, if not my daughter, I'll think about–– It was three people that I would think about. So before I got arrested, I was taking care of my, my baby, my younger sister—I won’t call her a baby, cuz she’s not like, a baby—and she had a son. So he was like, basically my son. So it was me, my daughter, and my sister, and my nephew. We all live. And that was my, my place. So I got arrested and I had to leave them there. I had a place in Harlem. And so I was always thinking about my daughter, my nephew, and my mom. More my daughter and my nephew, you know. Was always worrying if they ate, you know, what did they eat? Are they like, is my daughter, you know, going to school? Or did they, you know–– just, just what a mother would sit and just–– and I worry myself into almost a stroke in prison. Yeah. And that's how I got on the blood pressure medicine.
So, yeah, I was always worrying about my daughter. And if not worrying about her, most of my time, I would be listening to music. So music was one of my things that'll just take me away from the, you know, prison. I slept a lot. I had a little laundry job. And I would go out on the yard, sometimes. I was a part of a couple of tournaments, softball, volleyball, you know, just things to try to keep you– but then after that year, go by you doing that, and then the next year, next year, you get tired of doing the same thing. So it's just, you know, yeah–– and then, yeah–– just trying to figure things to do. You know, ‘cause I didn't, I didn't mess with too many people. I didn’t talk to too many people, so…
Interviewer 21:40
So just trying to keep yourself occupied?
Melinda 21:43
Yes. And stay out of trouble. Because basically, you have to stay on, you know, your minimum, if you don't want to do your max. So it’s like–– and you got to have a job to do that. And you only get paid a dollar a day. Some jobs just 50 cents a day.
Interviewer 22:02
Crazy… Did you make any like bonds or relationships in prison, like anybody you still…
Melinda 22:20
Yes. I met a lot of–– I met a lot of–– met a lot of cool people. People that I kept in touch with when I got home. People that we still are friends now. And there's still a couple of ‘em that are still inside, in prison. But I don't keep in touch with them. I just know that they're still there. Some–– a couple that, that has life sentences, you know?
Interviewer 22:55
Yeah. I guess, I'm sure that having those, the cool people there that you met was helpful than going it alone.
Melinda 23:11
Yes. It was ‘cause the experience of just being around females 24/7. Jesus. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. You see a lot of things that you just be like, what in the world? You know, and there's fights all the time over, um [Pause], whose girl is this, or why are you looking at my girl, or why you tryna’ fight my girlfriend, and you know, just, just, just nonsense or–– it's uh–– [laughs].
Just . . . I call it the soap opera, you know? All my–– it's All My Children, one day it’s Days of Our Lives, because every day you go out on the yard, there’s something else happens. You know, there's a fight. If not a fight it's just, it’s just a lot of, a lot of crazy stuff that goes on, goes on there that I never thought I would actually see right in front of me, you know. Females.
But it was an––it was an experience. I tell people that it––it wasn't a punishment for me. Because I am not a person who don't like discipline. So it wasn't a punishment for me. Actually, it was rehab for me because of what I was going through before I got locked up. So I'd never been to prison, I'd never been to anyone’s jail. So that whole ordeal was like a first experience. And that was something that I guess I was supposed to go through, I believe. And ‘cause, you know, I'm spiritual. And I believe in God. And I used to always ask God to, I need solitary confinement, you know, before I got arrested, and I was stressed. It was just a lot, a lot on me. I almost committed suicide like three times, you know, but I just don't have the strength to do it myself. So it was just–– I felt like, you know, when that happened to me, that was him just sitting me down. You know, my family was stressing me out, immigration, I was–– my work permit was expired. I couldn't get it. They denied me everything. It was just every time my life was just, you know, I took a step up, it was just something knocking me down, and no one wasn't there to help me. But I was just always there for everyone. And yeah, I needed that, that getaway. So once I was there it was just like, you know, the first experience of everything. So just looking around and seeing what these women go through every day. I used to always tell them that I work. I'm just here undercover. I'm here undercover seeing how they treat you guys. And they used to believe me. [laughs]
“It’s stressful. It’s stressful. I really, I really think that caused part of my, my aneurism. I really did, stressing about ICE, it took over my life. Literally. I couldn’t think about anything else. ”
Interviewer 26:20
Why did you say that?
Melinda 26:22
Because I never gave any trouble of the–– of what they would give to the–– you know, to the officers. The officers gave me a lot of respect. The unit manager, you know, when he saw my daughter, he told my daughter, like he wished that all his inmates would be upstanding as I am. Because you don't give problems, problems don't come to you. Your time goes by very well. You get whatever you need. I learned that. Even though–– even if I don't like them, I still have to––I gotta play your rules. And I have––I'm a military person anyway, so I got a lot of manners, you know, and I know how to––you just got to know how to work people. I'm a good judge of character when it comes to people and, you know, people likes my, like, you know, to be around me and I just don't–– I don't know. I was the person that everyone was coming to, you know, for me to talk to about calming them down or, you know, if they got an issue going on, because that's just me, I love to talk to people about their issues. Like I’m a [unintelligible] I like to give you positive, positive insight.
Interviewer 27:31
Yeah. That's the type of role, like you had a counselor role inside, a little bit.
Melinda 27:39
Yeah. And I was… I was, you know, I kinda, I kinda liked it because, you know, having people not really look up to you, but see you in that positive way. And you can make their day better when they're having a bad day. That's, that's good. That's good in prison. ‘Cause I can, I can actually stop a person from fighting someone or going to, you know, going inside a person's room to go steal something that, you know, some of that kind of thing. ‘Cause they know I'm not gonna say anything. So everyone trusts, trusts me. I just talk about them out of not doing something stupid.
Interviewer 28:27
Just in terms of what happened next. So you got out and then you came back home. Can you talk a little bit…you went through a whole immigration process?
Melinda 28:46
So, um, I was released on supervision and the supervision is that I…
Interviewer 29:00
Immigration?…
Melinda 29:03
Yes. On ICE supervision, where I have to go and check in at 26 Federal Plaza whenever they tell me to. So the–– when I got home, they gave me 30 days to check in with them. I went down and I checked in, and the check in was about me having to get my passport and my travel documents. So it was basically explaining to me the reason why, you know, you're on supervision, you know, is for you to get your documents, so we can obtain them, so you can be deported basically. And, you know, since 2000—I was released 2014, November 2014. And since then, I've been going back and forth to ICE check in on 26 Federal Plaza.
In the beginning, it was every six––no every three months. And then a year went by, and then they started with every six months. And then it began on––who is the deportation officer. Depends on who it is. And then, I would get eight months, and then it would drop back down to six months. And then I got a deportation officer one time in 2017, he gave me a whole year. I was ecstatic about that. Because that lessens the worries and feeling harassed for documents that I don't have. Know what I mean? [Sighs] It's stressful. It’s stressful. I really, I really think that caused part of my, my aneurism. I really did, stressing about ICE, it took over my life. Literally. I couldn't think about anything else. You know, and just the thought of being on a final order of deportation. [Pause] I don't know.
Interviewer 31:52
And it's that uncertainty, right? Like you just go and it's like, you don't know what's gonna happen . . .
Melinda 32:02
You don't know what's gonna happen.
Interviewer 32:03
Or what they're going to ask of you.
“When ICE decided they wanted to come and get me and detain me, personally, I feel like that’s double jeopardy.... why do you have to detain me all over again when I just did eight years?”
Melinda 32:07
You know, so it's like, it's either you have to know how to, you know, how to fight them. They cause, they've caused some medical issues, to me. And this is what basically I've been trying to, to um, how can I say it? To build a, not a case, but to take all my medical documents to my deportation officer, which I have. And I had my doctor, you know, just to let them see the stress that they that they causin’. You know, this is not a joke. And it's, it's deteriorating, and it could deteriorate someone if they allow it.
Interviewer 33:12
You said before, you don't think of your time in prison as a punishment. Do you feel like it's only about immigration, or…
Melinda 33:28
No, so let me clear that up. Let me clear that up. All right. My prison sentence is different than the immigration time that I spent. Reason I say that—what happened, what I did to get these charges, that was that was all on me. But when ICE decided they wanted to come and get me and detain me, personally, I feel like that's double jeopardy. So I was not, you know, I was not with that. You know what I mean? My thing is, if, if–– what's the sense–– why do you have to detain me all over again when I just did eight years. I mean, if you want to do what you're doing, you can do what you're doing without you having to detain me. That's like double jeopardy. So now I feel like I was doing, you know, double time for the crime that I committed. And I didn't even commit the crime with ICE. And my charges was not even with the federal government. You know, not even with the feds. So it's like, yeah, so it's all–– it's a whole bunch of crazy, you know, crazy stuff. But like I said, I've always felt like that was double jeopardy, and I don't feel like that should be something that's done. You know, that's unfair. And you're having people, you know, just doing time all over again like, take them from one place to the next. That doesn't make any sense.
Interviewer 35:19
And did you realize when you were doing your eight year sentence, did you know that there was a possibility that they could do that to you after you were released? Or how much information did you have?
“I was scared. I wasn’t scared like, scared for my life. I was just a little nervous because I’m just like, when am I gonna get out of here? When am I going to be able to speak to someone to let them know where I’m at?”
Melinda 35:36
Yeah, I knew that they could have––they could have came and picked me up after I was released from prison. And once, because I had the detainer on me, so if no one didn't lift the detainer off of me, or I didn't get a lawyer, or my family didn't try to get, you know, help to try to get the detainer lifted off of me so they couldn't come and get me, then that was it. So the detainer was on me for years. I had a detainer on me for years. They even came to the prison to see me; try to have me sign papers. I looked at them–– I was–– I didn't sign any papers.
Interviewer 36:25
So you know, this idea that you would have to do this whole thing again, after completing your sentence successfully, like you said. You're like: I tried to stay out of trouble. Knowing that getting out of prison could mean you have to deal with a whole ‘nother, being detained process. How did that impact you?
Melinda 36:59
It was uh, it was, it was hard because I had to wait three days before I could speak to my daughter. Three days before she knew where I was. She was actually losing her mind. You know. [Sighs] Being in that facility and not, not–– when I first got there, just, just seeing–– I got there in the night. And you know, it's like, they was leading you down like a dungeon. I call it the dungeon. It's just really dark in there. And I was, I was scared. I wasn't scared like, scared for my life. I was just a little nervous because I'm just like, when am I gonna get out of here? When am I going to be able to speak to someone to let them know where I'm at? So I know what's going on. They don't tell you anything. They just take you there and you sit there. You don't know anything of what's going on. You have to ask someone else the next day or something. That’s their, like, how do you, how can you speak to someone or, I think it was a girl who had a phone call that gave me some of her minutes to call my daughter, to let my daughter know exactly where I was, and how to put minutes on her phone. So it––the process is scary. I mean it’s—it can scare, it can make you feel like, [sighs] like, there's no return.
Interviewer 38:50
Someone we work with reflected on this idea that the system never lets you go. And based on your experience, and everything you just described, what do you think about that idea? And what do you think about this whole system that you've had to go through? I guess both immigration and also, your time in state prison.
“You know, you get out of jail. They’re making you pay them to be on probation. I’ve never heard of something like that in my life. And you don’t have no money, and you got a felony. And if you don’t pay them, that’s violating your probation. So how is it possible? How are you making it?”
Melinda 39:32
Well, [Sighs] that's a good–– it’s a good–– that was a good point that that person made, that said that the system never lets you go. And once you get caught up into the system, it's hard to get out because they try to keep you in. It doesn't matter how you try to fight, know what I mean? You fight and you fight, and you get out, but then there's always something, you know, there's always something and then the system is not made up to…
Say, when I got home, you know, programs. Whether or not I am an immigrant, you know what I mean? I'm gonna need some kind of program, some kind of help, because now I have a felony. You know what I mean? And now I have immigration, tryna’ deport me. So how am I–– how am I gonna get through? How am I gonna get by? What am I supposed to do? There's nothing. You know, there's no––there’s just, there’s nothing, period.
Even in in North Carolina, it’s like the systems in North Carolina also is crazy. You know, you get out of jail. They're making you pay them to be on probation. I've never heard of something like that in my life. And you don't have no money, and you got a felony. And if you don't pay them, that's violating your probation. So how is it possible? How are you making it? How can–– How can someone make it? That's like a revolving door. That's like you telling me, just, Imma’ slap you. Every day I see you, I'm just gonna slap you no matter how you try not to get slapped. You know what I mean, like it–– there is no way.
So the system has to change. It's a revolving door. For me, I can say for me, it won't be a revolving door for me. I can say for me that I can get past this and I can move on, from all of this, and this immigration stuff. But it's going to take a lot, you know? And when I say get past, the reason why I say that is because until, when I get–– I need to be able to have some type of free, freeness. I need to be able to feel free. And I can't–– I cannot feel that freeness until ICE release me. And it's a hard fight with them. So do I just, what do I do?
Interviewer 42:26
So you think you need to feel free, which seems very human to me…
Melinda 42:44
I’m free, but I'm not free. You know what I mean? They just don't have an anklet on my leg, or shackles on my wrist. They're still telling me what to do, when––where I can go, when I can go there. They still telling me that I have to call them and ask them for permission to go to a family gathering out of the state. You know what I mean? Like those type of things, you know. So they have control. That's what they do.
Interviewer 43:19
And so for you this revolving door that they're trying to put you through, you're fighting to get out of it.
Melinda 43:29
No. I've never been in that revolving door. I've just seen people go through it. And I tell myself that I'm not going to be one of those people. But I see the reason why they go through it because the system doesn't, you know––there's nothing out there for them to try to transition to.
Interviewer 43:51
Yeah, sorry. I thought you meant like revolving door in terms of you still having to check in, is not you coming back into the system necessarily, but it is this way that they're still trying to have control over your life like you said, you know?
Melinda 44:10
Yes.
Interviewer 44:16
Is there anything else that you want to talk about? Your experience? Anything you remember, you went through, that you want to mention? Like reflections on the system…or whatever you want?
Melinda 44:42
Um [Pauses] I’m just––I would just love if you know––how can I say it? The system needs to be dismantled. Okay? It needs to be torn apart and dismantled. Until that happens, I don't know. The only thing that I can do, like I said, is continue fighting and helping others that are facing the same predicament that I'm facing. Getting them aware and advocating if I can, in any which way that I can. And just putting the word out there, you know? Just trying to put the word out there. Because it's crazy. We have a system that needs to be dismantled. And that's just all it is. If it doesn't get dismantled, they just gonna–– it's just gonna keep... yeah. That's how I feel.